Post-Junior Cert
Kinsale Community School
Tuesday, 20th January 2015
Ber Bowen– Guidance Counsellor
Post-Junior Cert Options
Purpose of Talk
To help parents decide upon which of the 3
programmes is most suitable for your
To give information on each option
To answer any questions
To enable you to get more information
Post-Junior Cert Options
Leaving Certificate Established Programme
(LCE) –Traditional Leaving Cert
Leaving Certificate Applied Programme (LCA)
Transition Year Programme (TY)
It is important to give consideration to which
programme the student will undertake and to do
so taking account of not only what might be
beneficial for the student in the short -term but in
the long -term as well
Factors Which May Influence
What the student wants
Influence of friends and what they are doing
What parents, siblings, or significant others
might advise
The academic ability of the student
The academic achievement of the student
The student’s disposition towards schoolwork,
attendance and expectation
What the student wishes to do after the LC
Senior Cycle – Traditional LC or
It is really important to ensure that each student picks
the course of study which suits them best – not just for
academic reasons, but also for social reasons, selfconfidence reasons, self-esteem reasons and overall
A good LCA is far better than a poor traditional LC in
terms of employment and the chance of obtaining a
place on FE courses (such as Cork College of
Commerce or progressing onto Higher Education –
universities and Institutes of Technology)
Students need to be prepared to work really hard from
the start of Y5 for traditional LC and be or become selfdirected and self-motivated
Hand on to Ms Kelly to introduce LCA
Senior Cycle – LCE (Traditional LC)
Huge difference between Junior and Senior
Fewer subjects for examination so subjects are
studied in greater depth
More time given to those subjects e.g. from 3
classes to 5 per week
The level of difficulty with regard to subjects is
much higher
Senior Cycle changes
All subjects are offered at honours and pass
Irish and Maths available at foundation level also
Students will be divided into honours/pass in
Irish, English, Maths and French in Y5
Optional subjects are all taught at honours level
The way subjects are graded is more exact, so
instead of a C (55%-69%) in the JC every 5%
from 40% to 90% at LC will get a different grade
which in turn impacts on the overall points total
Leaving Certificate Points Calculation Grid
LCVP points awarded:
Distinction (80-100% )=70 pts, Merit (65-79% )=50 pts and Pass (50-64%) =30 pts
Until 2015, 25 bonus points will be added to the points score for Leaving Certificate
Higher Level Mathematics (Grade D3 or above).
All Three Subjects (3)
 Irish (Those with DES exemptions
will do business)
One of the Following (1)
 French
 German
 Geography
 English
 Maths
 These
subjects are
vital for careers/
Most should choose a
language as it is very
important for many
courses (except if they
have difficulties or an
alternative language)
 Can also choose Geog
as well as a language
Optional Subjects – Choose 3
Home Economics
Construction Studies
(known as Woodwork for JC)
Engineering (known as
Metalwork for JC)
Design and
Graphics (known as Tech
Graph for JC)
Applied Maths
Agricultural Science
Exam Religion
LCVP (Link Modules)
Optional Subjects
It is highly desirable that if a student picks a
subject for LC that they have taken to JC as
otherwise they may be at a considerable
If a subject has not been taken to JC it may not
be possible to do it for LC – it depends on the
subject. For example taking up biology not
having taken science for JC is far more difficult
(and not recommended) than say taking up
Home Economics
Optional Subjects
Need Junior Cert
 Accounting
 Chemistry
 Physics
 Engineering
 Construction
 Music (unless have music
Available without JC
 Business
 Biology (not recommended)
 Home Economics(JC sc helps)
 Art
Open to all
 History
 Geography
 Exam Religion
 Applied Maths
 Agricultural Science
(JC Science helps)
LCVP - More properly called Link Modules.
Programme Requirements for students taking Leaving Certificate
Examination from 2004 onwards
In order to qualify to register for these link modules a number of
conditions must be met
At least five Leaving Certificate subjects plus the Link Modules, one of which must
be Irish (unless exempt)
Two of the above subjects must be selected from one of the designated Vocational
Subject Groupings
Two Link Modules: Preparation for the World of Work and Enterprise Education
A recognised course in a Modern European Language other than Irish or English:
What is a recognised Modern European language course for LCVP students?
The school has the discretion in this case – there are various options open to
They can take a language at Junior Certificate level or they can follow one of the
FETAC language modules or the language teacher can devise a school programme
in the language.
Students must take the language class for a minimum of one class period per
week or equivalent over the two years of the programme within school time.
If a student is exempt from Irish for the Leaving Certificate they are automatically
exempt for the LCVP and students should replace Irish with another subject.
Qualifying Subjects for LCVP
Vocational Subject Groupings (VSGs) 2012/2013
Specialist Groupings
Constr Studies; Engineering; Design and Comm Graphics - Any Two
Physics and Construction Studies or Engineering or DCG
Agricultural Science and Construction Studies or Engineering or DCG
Agricultural Science and Chemistry or Physics
Home Economics; Agricultural Science; Biology - Any Two
Home Economics and Art - Design Option or Craft Option
Accounting and Business8.
Physics and Chemistry
Biology and Chemistry or Physics
10. Biology and Agricultural Science
11. Art - Design Option or Craft Option and DCG
Services Groupings
Engineering or Construction Studies or DCG and Accounting or Business
Home Economics and Accounting or Business
Agricultural Science and Accounting or Business
Art and Accounting or Business
Music and Accounting or Business
All subjects must be studied in same centre as Link Modules (i.e. in school)
Link Modules -note
The LC scoring of LCVP is different:
Distinction (80%+) worth 70 pts
Merit (65%-79%)
worth 50 pts
Pass (50%-64%)
worth 30 pts
This subject does not qualify them for
Matriculation purposes (NUI University entry)
Factors that influence Subject
Choice for Y5 in traditional LC
Likes/dislikes the subject – enthusiasm & interest
Being good at the subject – attainment in JC
Needing the subject for course/career choice after
the Leaving Cert
Friends/parents/significant others such as siblings
Likes/dislikes the teacher, or the teacher they think
will be teaching them! Not a good reason for picking
a subject!
Perceived as being ‘easy’ or ‘hard’
Ensuring Good Subject Choice
Discuss subject choice with your son/daughter
Students will be told and shown how to do as
much research as possible – not all do
Do as much research yourself – excellent
resources available
Be realistic – if a student did not like or excel at
a subject at JC why would that change at LC
Subjects and Careers If in Doubt, check it out
Contrary to popular opinion, there are only a few
required subjects for careers/ College entry.
Most requirements involve core subjects of Irish, English,
Maths and a Language.
The main other subjects specified in College courses are
science subjects – One for many courses, 2 for some
and sometimes specifying e.g. Chemistry. Chemistry and
one other lab sc covers requirements for most serious
science courses
So research needs to be done if science is being
considered as a serious option.
Subject and careers
Useful or Required?
 Most other courses/ careers do not specifically require subjects but
they are of course useful. e.g. You do not need Accounting in
Leaving Cert to study Accounting in College ; But it helps.
If serious about any area ( business, art, science, practical,
technical, etc) then the choice of related subjects is easy and
It is quite possible to study 3 sciences, 3 technical subjects, 2-3
creative subjects, 2 business subjects and students do so
successfully every year
If not focused on any particular area a popular choice is one
science, one business and one other subject. It covers most course
entry and career options
Optional Subjects
Handout available outlining what each of the
subjects entails – the types of skills and aptitudes
necessary for the subject
Handout will supplement the sources of information
highlighted in this presentation
Again the more research that is undertaken re
subjects and possible future course choices the
more likely the student will pick the right subjects (click on students, then subject
choice, then minimum subject requirements) (very comprehensive)
What Now?
Decision needs to be made about which
programme will be applied for.
Detailed TY application form (given tonight)
should be returned to school office for the
attention of Ms Hay
LCA application will be dealt with by Ms Kelly
Traditional LC - Subject Choice Form will be
given to those going straight to Y5 and should
be returned to Ms K O’Brien
Those opting for Traditional LC
Students going into Y5 will be given more detailed
talk by guidance counsellors to go along with the
form asking them to indicate what subjects they
wish to choose.
In this initial open choice the student will be asked
for their 4 subjects in order of preference. This
includes a back-up subject
It is vital that students and parents research and
seriously consider this choice as it determines the
subject blocks that will eventually be presented to
KCS 5Y Options for 2015/2016
NAME: ___________________________
Circle one of the following: Irish/ Business (for those with DES exemption document only)
Circle one of the following: French/ German/ Geography
Choose ANY FOUR of the following subjects in order of preference.
Applied Maths
Construction Studies
Agricultural Science
Examination Religion
Home Economics
1st choice: _________________________
2nd choice:_________________________
3rd choice:__________________________
4th choice:__________________________
Procedures around Subject Choice
•3 Bands will be generated from these preferences and we will
endeavour to allow you to study 3 of the subjects you have chosen.
•A subject may not be viable to run if numbers are too small
•Please ensure that if you choose LCVP in any band that the other
subjects you choose qualify you to do it (see attached document)
•Please do not choose the same subject more than once
Please return this form completed to the Deputy Principal’s office by
1pm on the specified date on the form.
If a student returns the form late, they may not get their chosen
subjects. If the form is filled incorrectly (eg. 3 choices instead of 4), the
form will be returned to you and this may also cause delay and have
repercussions for subject allocation.
•See school Guidance Counsellors with any questions.
Procedures around Subject Choice
The purpose of the free choice is to try to ensure
that as many students as possible get as many
of their preferred subjects as possible
While the school tries to ensure that students get
their choice, students and parents need to be
aware there is no guarantee of students getting
all their subject choices
When the blocks have been set (these will not
change once set), students will be made aware
of the subjects they will be taking in Fifth Year
Final Comments
Our experience has been that those for whom LCA might
be the most suitable option are more likely to choose the
LCA option if they do not undertake TY but its not
A comprehensive handout on traditional LC subject
choice is available at the end of the talks outlining each
optional subject so please take this if student is
considering going straight to Y5
There will a more detailed talk for parents of TY on
subject choice on next Tues, 27th Jan and you are
welcome to attend
Those who may have questions about traditional LC, or
other career or educational related questions related to
TY or LCA, please feel free to contact Ms Bowen in
school or email [email protected]

Post Junior Cert Options LCE & LCA Programmes